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View Full Version : kinsella vs. bemis vs. alt press


trinket
10-02-2006, 12:44 PM
= HILARIOUS.

HaveFunDying
10-02-2006, 12:49 PM
I read the Bemis statement. He went a little overboard with it, but I defintely spotted some pwnage. What did Tim Kinsella say that pissed him off so much? Can anyone link me? And how does AP tie into it?

trinket
10-02-2006, 12:59 PM
http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?t=175808

theres a link to the kinsella argument on the first line.


both arguments are completely jaded.. but max's last line had me dying.

HaveFunDying
10-02-2006, 01:12 PM
I don't doubt that the majority of the bands in the August issue sucked (who was on the cover anyway?), but the premise of his article, calling out EVERY single band in the magazine, is a mind-bogglingly bad move. On top of that, the article is trying so hard to sound clever, but never even comes close.

I don't think Bemis is the genius people try to make him out to be, but he is admittedly very clever. That is, until he went all Anchors on us, and compared Kinsella's rant to homophobia and racism.

BizzleBrizzle
10-02-2006, 03:05 PM
I haven't read either, but the summary of the Kinsella one made me think he was a douche bag trying to be "edgey".

Say Anything's better than any Kinsella related band anyways.

iwilltotallyfuckyouup
10-02-2006, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by BizzleBrizzle
I haven't read either, but the summary of the Kinsella one made me think he was a douche bag trying to be "edgey".

Say Anything's better than any Kinsella related band anyways.

Say Anything is better than anything Tim Kinsella-related, definitely, but SA's not as good as American Football, not even close.

And there's really no "vs. Alt Press" in this, since it was an Op-Ed piece that I commissioned and approved.

Oh, and HFD, this ran in AP 219; the issue he referred to was our Warped Tour cover (AP 217).

BNO
10-02-2006, 04:56 PM
Kinsella's is like one big punknews.org comment.

He should fuck off.

Big_Guy
10-02-2006, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by iwilltotallyfuckyouup
Say Anything is better than anything Tim Kinsella-related, definitely, but SA's not as good as American Football, not even close.
or Owen for that matter

Dude Beer
10-02-2006, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by Ass Cobra
Kinsella's is like one big punknews.org comment.


well put.

Anchors
10-02-2006, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by Ass Cobra
Kinsella's is like one big punknews.org comment.

He should fuck off.

I like how you always equate every user on PN with stupid comments, as if you don't make a plethora of them yourself.

Granted, those forums have their share of idiots, but you're not that far above them.

HaveFunDying
10-02-2006, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by Anchors
I like how you always equate every user on PN with stupid comments, as if you don't make a plethora of them yourself.

Granted, those forums have their share of idiots, but you're not that far above them.


Man, it's like we don't even have to try anymore with you. You just go out of your way to get offended.

Anchors
10-02-2006, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by HaveFunDying
Man, it's like we don't even have to try anymore with you. You just go out of your way to get offended.

How am I offended?

I acknowledged that the largest contingent of people who comment on those forums are dumb, but at the same time, BNO isn't exactly a beacon of brilliance himself.

HaveFunDying
10-02-2006, 09:04 PM
Wait, BNO and Ass Cobra are the same people?

JimmysTangoMethod
10-02-2006, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by Anchors
I like how you always equate every user on PN with stupid comments, as if you don't make a plethora of them yourself.

Granted, those forums have their share of idiots, but you're not that far above them.

If this was punknews BNO would be like



_____here


and 90% of punknews would be like



























______here







It's that bad.

ConzoTheLegacy
10-02-2006, 09:40 PM
I like all Kinsella related projects FAR more than Say Anything.

rawrchadrawr
10-02-2006, 10:15 PM
punknews forum is pretty much terrible.

BNO
10-02-2006, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by Anchors
I like how you always equate every user on PN with stupid comments, as if you don't make a plethora of them yourself.

Granted, those forums have their share of idiots, but you're not that far above them.

Whatever dog.

Fuzzy
10-02-2006, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by rawrchadrawr
punknews forum is pretty much terrible. We don't have a forum.

rawrchadrawr
10-02-2006, 10:44 PM
Originally posted by Fuzzy
We don't have a forum.

punknews comments are terrible.

BizzleBrizzle
10-03-2006, 12:10 AM
I hate punknews comments too, for a while I tried making it so I didn't have to read the anonymous ones, but I just kept going back.

Teen_Wolf
10-03-2006, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by rawrchadrawr
punknews forum is pretty much terrible.

Probably the closest thing to truth in this thread.

brandon-punkrocks
10-03-2006, 09:38 PM
seriously, anything kinsella related is better than say anything.

maybe i'm becoming old and jaded myself. but there's a long news post on one of the ex assistant new band's webpage about "last show fest" which would be where all these bands that were past their prime should play their last shows all at once. it would be incredible.

but yeah, cap'n jazz, american football, joan of arc, owen, make believe, and to a degree owls, are all better than anything say anything has ever done or will ever do.

iwilltotallyfuckyouup
10-03-2006, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by brandon-punkrocks
but yeah, cap'n jazz, american football, joan of arc, owen, make believe, and to a degree owls, are all better than anything say anything has ever done or will ever do.

I'll give you Cap'n Jazz even though I'm not a fan simply because of their historical significance, but seriously, how can you say Joan Of Arc or Make Believe are better than Say Anything? What is your criteria? Bemis writes better melodies, better lyrics, creates better stories with his music... I can't comprehend how you're justifying this.

trinket
10-03-2006, 10:57 PM
i know its weird of me to say this, because i grew up loving say anything..

but i always feel like the songs are sort of empty when i listen to them. .. like they just dont feel FULL.

Christopher
10-03-2006, 11:02 PM
I like Say Anything on a very casual level, but they're very very overrated.

Fuzzy
10-03-2006, 11:42 PM
Originally posted by Christopher
I don't hate them or anything, but they're very very overrated.

brandon-punkrocks
10-04-2006, 11:34 AM
trinket kind of nailed it on the head. their songs are completely hollow to me. and i don't really like their "better melodies." i liked how raw and fun cap'n jazz was. in addition to their historical significance. and i don't give a damn about the stories bemis makes with his lyrics. joan of arc had much better song lyrics. and make believe are just good. not anything special, but better than anything boring and generic and empty.

just because your magazine jocks that band, doesn't mean you have to.

iwilltotallyfuckyouup
10-04-2006, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by brandon-punkrocks
trinket kind of nailed it on the head. their songs are completely hollow to me. and i don't really like their "better melodies." i liked how raw and fun cap'n jazz was. in addition to their historical significance. and i don't give a damn about the stories bemis makes with his lyrics. joan of arc had much better song lyrics. and make believe are just good. not anything special, but better than anything boring and generic and empty.

just because your magazine jocks that band, doesn't mean you have to.

The Kinsella family gets just as much coverage as Max Bemis does in AP.

Also, here's some sample Joan Of Arc lyrics:

Let's Wrestle
Foggy Pennsylvania
highway sunrise

Wrestling you.
Cotton brown Octobers
This August; so wool.
We know
we can't
quite kiss
yet. Let's wrestle.
Let's wrestle.

Pure genius, I know.

brandon-punkrocks
10-04-2006, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by iwilltotallyfuckyouup
The Kinsella family gets just as much coverage as Max Bemis does in AP.

Also, here's some sample Joan Of Arc lyrics:



Pure genius, I know.

and let's not forget this gem from say anything:

and we took up weapons yeah
and we took off our clothes
and we took up weapons yeah
and we took off our....

OR

I hear
"Hey, hey, hey, hey come pollinate me"
"Hey, hey, hey, hey come pollinate me, hey"


i wonder how much you're getting laid scott if these are the stories that you find so interesting.

HaveFunDying
10-04-2006, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by Richard
Whenever a woman asks me what I would like to do on a date, my first answer is wrestle. Then "do it".

Me too, except I don't even wait for a date. I drop these gems during our introduction.

brandon-punkrocks
10-04-2006, 01:37 PM
and you just tried to compare the coverage of an ENTIRE FAMILY against that of one person.

that's like saying the kansas city royals get as much sports coverage on espn as albert pujols.

iwilltotallyfuckyouup
10-04-2006, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by brandon-punkrocks
and you just tried to compare the coverage of an ENTIRE FAMILY against that of one person.

that's like saying the kansas city royals get as much sports coverage on espn as albert pujols.

The Kinsella family really only consists of two people, Mike and Tim (it's not like Nate writes songs). And considering how avant garde the latter's music is (and how somewhat obscure both are in the scheme of pop music), they get a surprisingly consistent amount of coverage in AP -- moreso than in any other national rock magazine.

iwilltotallyfuckyouup
10-04-2006, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by brandon-punkrocks
and you just tried to compare the coverage of an ENTIRE FAMILY against that of one person.

that's like saying the kansas city royals get as much sports coverage on espn as albert pujols.

Right. AP, like ESPN (and any other form of print or TV news), covers our heavy-hitters moreso than the "no names" because we know a significant portion of our audience wants to know what that heavy hitter is up to. However, we still cover the "no names" because we know there's a smaller, yet strongly devoted part of our readership who want to keep up to date on those people.

musical-monkey
10-04-2006, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by iwilltotallyfuckyouup
The Kinsella family gets just as much coverage as Max Bemis does in AP.

Also, here's some sample Joan Of Arc lyrics:



Pure genius, I know.

Have you heard Say Anything's "Wow, I Can Get Sexual Too"?

The Marc
10-04-2006, 03:47 PM
I'd just like to point out that Albert Pujols gets 1/15 off the coverage that the New York Yankees/Boston Red Sox do.

ConzoTheLegacy
10-04-2006, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by The Marc
I'd just like to point out that Albert Pujols gets 1/15 off the coverage that the New York Yankees/Boston Red Sox do.

Yeah, but he said Kansis City Royals which is probably correct, but you know...

I can tell Brandon and I are on the same page.

infinityplus2
10-04-2006, 04:49 PM
I never appreciated the glamorization of Max Bemis' mental illness. He doesn't come off any different than all the other music industry douchebags. If anything he's even more loved for his mental instability. I've got issues and problems of my own, and its not glamorous at all.

Fuzzy
10-04-2006, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by iwilltotallyfuckyouup
The Kinsella family really only consists of two people, Mike and Tim (it's not like Nate writes songs). And considering how avant garde the latter's music is (and how somewhat obscure both are in the scheme of pop music), they get a surprisingly consistent amount of coverage in AP -- moreso than in any other national rock magazine. Possibly that's because music magazines sometimes cover good music, not just popular music.

ebullientsoul
10-04-2006, 08:50 PM
Originally posted by Fuzzy
Possibly that's because music magazines sometimes cover good music, not just popular music.

Consider the amount of garbage in Rolling Stone or Spin...

trinket
10-04-2006, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by infinityplus2
I never appreciated the glamorization of Max Bemis' mental illness. He doesn't come off any different than all the other music industry douchebags. If anything he's even more loved for his mental instability. I've got issues and problems of my own, and its not glamorous at all.

his problems arn't glamorous.. just the stupid shit he does when he is at the height of his problems, is.

he seriously used to be pretty sick no joke. it sorta sucks that it became the thing to epitomize him though. i haven't seen them recently to justify saying if hes still sick or not. hopefully its a not.

lokithelion
10-05-2006, 08:29 AM
Half of you hate Say Anything for no reason other than so many AP.net fans dug it. Is it ground breaking? Fuck no. But neither is anything Tim's done since Capt. and I'm a massive Joan of Arch fan. Giving Max shit because the press wrote about being crazy or having the balls to respond to one of his heros and call bullshit seems a bit retarded.

Fuzzy
10-05-2006, 09:05 AM
Some of don't like Say Anything because it's not good music, also. Well, not exactly "bad music" but more like "oh well, it's there" music. Max also seems like an...incredibly ridiculously huge tool, but this is based on his attempt to write a "political" message on his website a couple years back. It was so terrible constructed I can't even begin to take him seriously anymore.

And I have no problem with him putting his issues into his music, that's what it's there for. One of my favorite albums this year is about a dude I know getting over his addictions, so it's all fair. The key is in how you do it and if it looks like you're glamourising it. Not saying Max is, but at times it definitely reeks of Glassjaw-levels of exploiting an illness.

monsterriffs
10-05-2006, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by Fuzzy
Some of don't like Say Anything because it's not good music, also. Well, not exactly "bad music" but more like "oh well, it's there" music. Max also seems like an...incredibly ridiculously huge tool, but this is based on his attempt to write a "political" message on his website a couple years back. It was so terrible constructed I can't even begin to take him seriously anymore.

Maybe he had just read The Fountainhead and was inspired.

trinket
10-05-2006, 09:22 AM
Originally posted by Fuzzy
Some of don't like Say Anything because it's not good music, also. Well, not exactly "bad music" but more like "oh well, it's there" music. Max also seems like an...incredibly ridiculously huge tool, but this is based on his attempt to write a "political" message on his website a couple years back. It was so terrible constructed I can't even begin to take him seriously anymore.

And I have no problem with him putting his issues into his music, that's what it's there for. One of my favorite albums this year is about a dude I know getting over his addictions, so it's all fair. The key is in how you do it and if it looks like you're glamourising it. Not saying Max is, but at times it definitely reeks of Glassjaw-levels of exploiting an illness.

how is glassjaw exploiting an illness? i guess because i have the same thing i dont really see it as exploitation. shit sucks, and i was totally hospitalized twice this summer for it.

Fuzzy
10-05-2006, 09:38 AM
I know that it's extremely serious however for a period of time, and this could be because Daryl was just trying to push through it, it seemed like the illness was being used as a publicity device itself and it seemed really...weird. Just my interpretation, I know most everyone else doesn't share it, especially those who swing from his collection testes.

lokithelion
10-05-2006, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by Fuzzy
Some of don't like Say Anything because it's not good music, also. Well, not exactly "bad music" but more like "oh well, it's there" music. Max also seems like an...incredibly ridiculously huge tool, but this is based on his attempt to write a "political" message on his website a couple years back. It was so terrible constructed I can't even begin to take him seriously anymore.

And I have no problem with him putting his issues into his music, that's what it's there for. One of my favorite albums this year is about a dude I know getting over his addictions, so it's all fair. The key is in how you do it and if it looks like you're glamourising it. Not saying Max is, but at times it definitely reeks of Glassjaw-levels of exploiting an illness.

I have no issue with you not liking it, but when I hear people who jock Cursive and other bands that play the same type of rock that SA does talking about how he's awful just because he stood up to a grumpy old man, dude thats beyond stupid.

Like Glassjaw max had to drop tour dates because he's fucking crazy. Is it hyping your illness if you're explaining to your fans? Shit dude, if anything the AP and Rolling Stones of the world have hyped that he's a wacko. He just puts out the songs.

Is he the second coming of Jesus? No. But he has recorded an impressive collection of fun rock songs that at least try to do a wide mix of styles, and he does most of them pretty damn well. Fuzzy should look up the Baseball album, as it's fuzzy pop punk sound is the sort of thing you'd cream over. I think Is a Real Boy is he worst, but I can see what he was trying to do and it's still a good record.

brandon-punkrocks
10-05-2006, 10:32 AM
except cursive has been doing it for what? 10 years now? they kind of have it down to a science. and just because one band tries to rip off a bunch of other bands, doesn't mean they actually do it well. and a lot of it has to do with what people hear and when. maybe if i heard say anything 6 or 7 years ago, i'd have liked it and i would defend them now. but i didn't and i don't. there's something to be said for an emotional attachment to a band based upon where you were in your life when it came around.

i agree with justin. it's not like i go out of my way to hate on the band, i avoid it at all costs. and it's certainly his right to call BS on nate, but his response wasn't even that well written or sensical for that matter. and i also agree with justin that he seems like a ridiculously huge tool.

HaveFunDying
10-05-2006, 12:27 PM
I think Bemis is a huge tool, but I also think Say Anything is a pretty good band.

ConzoTheLegacy
10-05-2006, 03:04 PM
Cursive and Say Anything are nowhere near the same calibur of music.

lokithelion
10-05-2006, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by ConzoTheLegacy
Cursive and Say Anything are nowhere near the same calibur of music.

SA main songwriter 22

Cursives main songwriter 39

Give the kid a little time.

trinket
10-05-2006, 04:57 PM
tim kasher is most definitely not 39.. more like 31.

ConzoTheLegacy
10-05-2006, 05:08 PM
Just turned 32 a few months ago.

Also, Bemis was an extra in Face/Off and apparently the baby on the cover of Raising Arizona.

Christopher
10-05-2006, 05:30 PM
I'm not being a spelling cop, but for future reference it's calibEr.

brandon-punkrocks
10-05-2006, 05:44 PM
not if you're talking about a mythological sword.

excalibur.

ConzoTheLegacy
10-05-2006, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by brandon-punkrocks
not if you're talking about a mythological sword.

excalibur.

Subconsciously, that's what I meant.